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tv   The Source With Kaitlan Collins  CNN  February 7, 2024 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

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tonight, straight from "the source" it is being called an epic fail of lossess for republicans as another critical bill goes down. nikki haley is calling it total chaos, donald trump is celebrating, president biden is saying it's time for republicans to decide who they serve. also history in the making at the supreme court. nine justices will give their first indication of where they lean-in the fight over removing trump from the ballot ahead of the election for what he did after the last one. and we have new updates for you tonight as the u.s. striking back for the deaths of three americans in the middle east. a top mulithsa commander dead tonight, and there are dramatic new images and details. i'm kaitlan collins, and this is "the source."
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in the words of one republican senator tonight, quote, i'm just pissed off. lisa murkowski is hardly the only one in her party that feels that way right now and is completely exasperated what's been happening on capitol hill. in just the last 24 hours her party lined up to sink the border bill one of their own negotiated for months. you can hear the frustration in that senator's voice, james lankford, of oklahoma how he lamented the politics have overtaken the policy. >> this is the pen that i was handed at that desk when i was sworn in to the united states senate. there's no reason for me to have this pen if we're just going to do press conferences. i can do press conferences from anywhere, but we can only make law from this room. >> no law's being made right now. senator mitch mcconnell was even
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among the no votes today even after he helped craft this bill, but that was after it was made clear it was not going anywhere. tonight many in the republican conference are sounding the alarm worried the dysfunction across the capitol could lead to loses in the mid-terms. it's certainly no secret who's at the center of this dysfunction. donald trump is even taking credit for it. >> please, because they were getting ready to pass a very bad bill. >> the last candidate who was standing between donald trump and the republican nomination for president, nikki haley, summed up what's been happening with her party this way. >> republicans lost a bill on the border. republicans lost a bill on supporting israel. inrnc chair lost her job. donald trump was found that he's not immune from any of the charg charges that are coming up.
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it is total chaos. >> that could be one thing everyone in washington agrees on because right now the senate is now trying to pass a version of that immigration bill with the national security parts but minus the immigration parts, minus the border changes republicans had been demanding in exchange for that aid for ukraine. yet even that is up in the air at this moment. senator chuck schumer just sent everyone home for the night as president biden in new york at a private fund-raiser has told donors he believes it's time for republicans to decide, quote, who they serve. here tonight someone who knows the border inside and out, a republican who used to represent one of the largest districts in texas along the southern border, former congressman will heard, welcome back to "the source." you heard speaker johnson saying today he does believe there are steady hands as he described it at the wheel. is that what you see what's happening where you used to work? >> absolutely not. it's ridiculous they can't get
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things done, we can't get big things done. and one of the things i'm sure you've heard governor haley say time and time again we shouldn't replace democratic chaos with republican chaos. this is one of the reasons why republicans haven't won the popular vote, the national popular vote in two decades. this kind of chaos is why donald trump lost the house, the white house, and the senate in 2018, 2020, and 2022. by the way, the last time a president did that was a hundred years ago, herbert hoover. it's absolutely ridiculous, and you shouldn't have someone who's running for president applaud the fact that dysfunction actually happens in washington, d.c. the border has been chaotic. it's a crisis. something needs to get done, and these men and women in congress were sent up to there to solve problems, and unfortunately -- >> you ran for president but you're now endorsing ambassador haley here.
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the question is, you know, she just kind of summed it up there for voters, but how does that break through to republican voters generally as she's arguing that it's in total chaos when donald trump is taking credit for the chaos? >> well, one group of voters that definitely is resonating with isgeneral election voters. that's why ambassador haley is beating joe biden by double digits. if we want to have a sure election in 2024 we should have ambassador haley as our nominee not donald trump because she trounces joe biden. and guess what? that helps people down the ballot. that could prevent us from losing the house. that could ensure that we have the senate, and it rolls down to state senate seats and city council races as well. and so -- but the message is resonating. we're seeing ambassador haley raise more money last month in june -- in january, excuse me. she raised more money in one month than she had in the
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previous quarter. and people are starting to realize there's one woman that can prevent the rematch from hell between two grumpy old men and that's nikki haley. >> but on what's going to happen talking about losing down ballot in the fall, what do republicans run on baz they hear this opportunity was where we heard a lot of republicans in the senate side believe they kind of had democrats at their will who are going to make concessions that, you know, democrats wouldn't have voted for this bill if it was a republican president, republican senate, and republican house. but they were willing to vote for it here. i mean how do republicans run that after turning down this immigration bill. even though it didn't have everything they wanted, it certainly was pretty conservative when you look at past legislation and past proposals. >> well, this piece of legislation was missing some things. of course, you never have perfect legislation, but not solving the problem means you're opening yourself up to attack
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because if something would have gotten done, you could say the border crisis was so bad even democrats came to the table to vote for republican ideas and those democrats would have to go over and champion a republican bill. and now democrats are going to say, hey, we're blaming republicans, we try to come to the table and negotiate, that's what's going to be written out. the reality is there's a lot on the border specifically that joe biden can do with a stroke of his pen and he has power within the executive branch, that's why we need a strong executive that understands the issues at the border, that's going to make sure that we stop catch and release and we catch and deport. we've got to make sure we have someone that understands the problems and how asylum is being abused by people and how we're letting, you know, human traffickers -- >> this bill would have addressed asylum. >> look, i'm not disagreeing
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with your sentiment. it would address parts of the asylum process, but what i'm saying is that joe biden still has power in his own dhs and directing dhs to stop treating everybody as an asylum seeker. that's a policy that began under the fina l years of and people in congress are going to get things done. many republicans and democrats would rather criticize and complain about the problem rather than fix it. >> senator chris murphy, a democrat obviously said today, told jake tapper republicans can't live in a world where immigration is actually solved because they have nothing to run on. i mean it's clear politics is playing -- it is clear it is
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playing a factor in their decision to -- to sink this. >> and that's why the american public has an important decision to make in the coming weeks. that are we going to elect a leader of a republican party that's going to be focused on actually solving problems or just complaining about the past, about the additional drama, the drama going to continue with donald trump, and that's why, you know, i'm supporting ambassador haley, and that's why i hope ambassador haley becomes -- >> former congressman will heard, thank you for your time tonight. also here tonight someone who is stuck in the middle of this mess on capitol hill, democratic senator ben carden of maryland. senator, just to see what's happening over the last 24 hours it's pretty clear just the frustration. right now i think the question that i'm wondering whether you can give us the answer to whether or not your party can salvage part of this deal that
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doesn't have anything to do anything with immigration? >> first, kaitlyn, it's good to be with you. we're frustrated, disappointed. it should have passed today. we're not going to give up. it's too important. the entire package is important. for example, aid to ukraine is absolutely necessary now in order for ukraine to stop the aggression of russia. and if russia wins in ukraine, it doesn't stop there. it goes onto other countries in europe and risks the united states military personnel getting involved if they attack a nato country. so we're going to continue these efforts. it's important to get the ukraine aid done, israel aid done, the humanitarian assistance. and yes, we're going to continue to fight for border security. this was a package carefully negotiated. it would have made a huge difference on our border. it is extremely frusitating we did exactly what republicans wanted us to do. they said put border security into the security package for
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ukraine. we did that, and then they said take it out. now they're saying maybe we should put it back in again. the republicans need to act in the best interest of our nation and not just respond to president trump. >> senator, well, i'm glad you brought that up because james l langford, thesary conservative republican senator of oklahoma who's negotiating this deal for his party on their behalf, he has a really striking comment today that i've been thinking about. on the floor as he was talking about the factors that were at play, i want everyone to ligste to that. >> i had a popular commentator four weeks ago that i talked to that told me flat out before they knew any of the contents of the bill -- any of the contents, nothing was out at that point. they told me flat out if you try to move a bill that solves the border crisis during this presidential year, i will do
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whatever i can to destroy you. because i do not want you to solve this during the presidential election. >> i guess the question is are popular commentators running the show on capitol hill or are the people who are elected to be up there making laws? >> on the border security issues the compromise that was in the package voted down today would have made a big difference on individuals coming to our border and the proper processing of people to come to our border. it would have setup a much more orderly process and stopped the large flow of people into america. the republicans knew that. they knew that. and, yes, part of the motivation in blocking this is they'd rather have it as a campaign issue than solve the problems. we have a crisis now. it's our responsibility to solve it. our republican colleagues know better. they need to vote on what's
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right. >> how did negotiations work in the senate going forward between -- i mean, democrats obviously are in the majority. but between the two parties in the senate specifically, how does that work given they both were working on this for months, an independent, a democrat, a republican, among others. and it just totally and spectacularly collapsed. >> well, i left the floor about two hours ago. i was in conversations with senator schumer and other members of the senate. we're not going to give up. we are meeting tonight. we are negotiating with republicans. we're trying to find a path forward. it's just too critical for our national security. we've got to get this done. we've got to get to the finish line. so we're going to look for ways in which we can move this forward. right now we have a vote scheduled for tomorrow that would move the security package, the aid to ukraine, israel, taiwan, humanitarian
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assistance -- i don't know. we had 58 votes on the board tonight for reconsideration. you need 60 tomorrow. i know so many of my colleagues have voted no, i know they support aid to ukraine. they've said it over and over and over again, so i can't see how they can vote against bringing this bill to the floor that provides the aid to ukraine and to israel and to our friends in taiwan. so i would find it extremely difficult to understand how they can justify voting no to get on the bill. this isn't even passage. this is just to have the bill on the floor. so we can consider amendments and have debate. do we want to take up aid to ukraine? so many of my republican colleagues have voted no today have said yes to that, and we'll see how they vote tomorrow. >> can i ask you because i do think what people maybe not fully realize or appreciate is aid to ukraine is literally on the table, and it could evaporate if this doesn't go anywhere. there is no other aid for them to draw down from, to send to
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ukraine whether it's weapons or money. what are the implications if this doesn't go anywhere tomorrow, if the senate can't even get step one achieved snd. >> the soldiers in ukraine are today rationing their ammunition because they don't have enough in order to keep the aggression of russia at bay. there's a territory dispute tonight that ukraine needs the help for military supplies that are not being provided because we don't have the resources to give them the help that they need because congress hasn't paiduts the aids package. it is urgent that with that money be released. that's why we are going to continue to work until we get this done. and our -- the vote today was a major setback, but we're not going to give up. >> senator, we'll stay tuned closely tomorrow to see what happens on the hill. thank you so much for joining us here on "the source."
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>> thank you, kaitlan. up next breaking news here tonight as there is a precise u.s. strike on the streets of baghdad killing a militant commander who's blamed the attacks on american forces happened. also tonight the u.s. supreme court is about to take on one of it biggest cases it's ever seen. can donald trump stay on the ballot?
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tonight the u.s. says it's successfully killed a top commander of hezbollah a powerful iran backed in iraq. this is the aftermath of that deadly trone strike on a car in baghdad. part a promise by president biden and his national security advisor to continue retaliating for the deaths of those three u.s. soldiers who were killed in that deadly drone strike in jordan. right now u.s. officials say there are no indications of collateral damage or civilian casualties as a result of what you're seeing here. joining me tonight cnn military analyst, retired air force colonel cedric leighton. also here a cnn political and global affairs analyst. we'll start with you in a moment. but this commander we're told was in charge of logistical support. what's the impact of the u.s.
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taking him out tonight? >> so, kaitlan, it's actually really important. he was responsible for as you said logistical support as well as the drone production and movement of drones into the area where they can be launched. so as a result of that he is a key figure. and because you pick those key figures, he in essence is what we'd call a high value target, and a high value target is one by definition you want to take out in a situation like this. we have a lot of history of doing that kind of thing going all the way back to the drug wars in latin america, but this type of operation shows how precise the intelligence was that we have on him. >> well, can we also talk about how precise this strike was? because you could see from this video that it's a crowded neighborhood in baghdad, but i wonder what it says to you about how the u.s. as they are continuing following the initial strikes that we saw, they're continuing to target these hezbollah, the katib hezbollah
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senior leaders. >> they have a pattern of life. and when we look at this from an intelligence perspective is we determine that pattern of life, we see how these people are, how they're going to and from their different places, where they work, how they do things, and that's how we go after them. we go into their thinking mode and see if we can find them based on their patternoffs behavior, and that is how we go after them. >> these are pretty senior leaders. obviously we see why they're targeting them, but how much does the u.s. have to do to degrade the power of these groups? because i imagine taking one leader out does not do that. >> you kind of have to think of these groups as like a hydra. there are many possible different heads of these divisions and other groups. and when one is taken out, another will replace it. whether that person is as
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effective as the one taken out is another question. what we're kind of banking on is attrition working on in that particular case, and this attrition as we take these people out, then it becomes a lot harder for them to conduct their missions. >> we're monitoring the aftermath of this. right now we're told still no civilian casualties. as we're looking at this, what we're also hearing from u.s. intelligence officials that deterring these attacks also comes down to what is happening on the ground in gaza. we just saw today the israeli prime minister intercepten hew dismissing that counter proposal from hamas for a cease-fire and a hostage deal as i believe he called it delusional was one of the words. the question i have is is that a no from him? because he didn't seem to outright say he's rejecting it. >> definitely in my opinion not no. he was even asked i think twice, prime minister, do you reject the response hamas gave? and he did not say i reject it.
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he called it delusional, he ca called it crazy, but he did not reject it. and the reason he did not reject it is the israelis were quite surprised when they saw the response because they thought the response will deal with the process, not with the substance. and then they saw a response that dealt a lot with the substance and looked more or less like a ramadan gift list. so everything you would want -- >> the hamas leader. >> yes, the hamas leader from cease-fires to the mosque and he asked for 60,000 mobile homes for gaza for people who lost their homes in the war. >> so israelis just didn't know what to do with it necessarily? >> i think they would want to go now, and they already did go to the qataris and to the egyptians who are the mediators and ask them what is this, what does it mean? does it mean hamas is giving her a maximum position because it doesn't want to negotiate, or
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this was just an addition to give us an idea what hamas wants to talk about in the actual negotiations. and the main question mark is whether we're going to see within days hamas officials and israeli officials coming to cairo and engaging in what's called proximity talks, meaning both sides sitting in different rooms with egyptian and qatari mediators moving between the rooms to start talking about actual details and not just negotiate about how to negotiate. >> and secretary blinken just sat down with netanyahu. you reported on the widening gulf between the u.s. and israel on october 7th. hard to believe we're at the four-month anniversary of that today. what did you hear about how that meeting went? >> i think it was okay. meaning as far as i know no one shouted on the other side. netanyahu did say in his press conference he protested to blinken about this executive order president biden signed on
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settler violence. but i think what was most interesting is what blinken said in his press conference. and what he said was that while hamas response had some nonstarters, it did give space for getting an agreement. and this is very different from what the israelis said, and it's even different from what president biden said yesterday when he said that hamas' response was a bit over the top. so i think the u.s. is pushing towards getting this deal. and why? because the u.s. needs a cease-fire. joe biden needs a cease-fire, and he needs us to stop talking about it on tv. so because of his election campaign. >> when he gets interrupted and so did the vice president just yesterday. great reporting. colonel, thank you so much for joining obviously with your expertise as well. also tonight an important update we're continuing to follow here at cnn as police in austin say that they have the stabbing of a 23-year-old palestinian american does now meet the definition of a hate
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crime. zack reea was hospitalized and he needed surgery after what happened on sunday. he was leaving a pro-palestinian protest when the stabbing occurred. and according to his father extends to the white house over this particular issue he was just talking about. >> he was in pain, he was in agony. he said, mr. president, mr. joe biden, i blame you. if you would have called a cease-fire three months ago, this would have never happened. >> 36-year-old burt james bakers, i should note, is already facing charges of second degree aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. the district attorney there is going to have to decide now whether to elevate these charges to include the hate crime it's now determined to be. up next on "the source" back to politics a the incumbent wants this to be a referendum on donald trump who he believes
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will be his opponent in this race. what he's telling donors tonight behind closed doors as he's also addressing the turmoil on capitol hill.
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. with congressional kshs in a bit of a melt down tonight, president biden is using this moment going on offense against republicans on what polls show is one of his weakest issues, immigration. he was speaking to supporters tonight in a fund-raiser in new york and he said, quote, every day between now and november the american people are going to know that the only reason the border is not secure is donald trump and his maga republican friends. here tonight to talk about that and everything that is happening on capitol hill democratic strategist and cnn political commentator paul begala, also republican strategist rena shah. that's my question, is biden going to be effectively switch this because it was -- or is and that's kind of why they don't have interest in keeping it that way is pretty powerful argument against him right now? >> i think the messaging on all this has gotten really jumbled
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up on both sides. the question is kind of how you move forward from here on out. every day gives you the opportunity to say who created a disaster and every republican wants to say it's biden who has this on his hands and therefore mayorkas can change things, oh, let's just get rid of mayorkas. so the three sensible folks that said let's not get rid of mayorkas, sees the writing on the wall. i think what people fail to say i say law enforcement at the border taking these credible claims of asylum -- these are two entities, mayorkas, the homeland security secretary, and congress that should fix things. again, it comes back to biden trump, biden trump because of the election. the reality is this we still have a situation at the border. nobody seems to want to handle it, and talking about it
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responsibly to me i only see one person pursuing it, nikki haley. >> paul, it is a cynical bet that they are taking, which is essentially it kind of neutralizes what they've been saying since december that this is national security crisis on the border and sinking their own bill, at least doing something to address it. but i do question whether or not that rings through with voters who so far intrinsically are holding president biden responsible. >> absolutely. and the key thing you had up there from our president are the first six words -- every day between now and november. trump comes out of real estate where it's location, location, location. communication is repetition, repetition, repetition. and by the way, trump and the republicans great at that. they parrot whatever it is -- i say they parrot, they repeat whatever it is mr. trump says. democrats need to get behind this and repeat it every single day. i think biden is an underrated communicator. he was the vice president and he said how's this for a slogan general motors is alive and bin
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laden is dead. i was like, ooh, good one, joe. and he said don't compare us to the all mighty compare us to the alternative. that's a good one. so he's got the talent. i want to see the team on the field, though. he's got a really good cabinet. i never see them. are they knocking on your door to come on this program? >> weirdly no. >> they should be out there buttressing this. we want to close the border, they want to close the abortion clinics, those are the two issues in the race. he can can win back. bill clinton won back the crime issue, a big republican issue. he can do this. i have criticized the president -- >> i will say saying off camera not in front of reporters. what do you make of paul's argument? >> i don't see that discipline
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happening, paul. i think it's hopeful because, again, this administration tends to get in its own way. here he has advance today say to the american people and make that argument how this crisis ended up like it did, but i still remember as most republicans do the failure of this administration to go to the border, of harris and biden to physically take themselves there and address this. instead harris all i can remember is her saying just don't come. that's not a solution. >> super bowl is on sunday, obviously a huge audience. president biden, you know, the president famously does an interview before whoever is hosting it. he didn't do it last year, he's not doing it this year. do you think that's a mistake? >> you know, you hate to turn down an audience. >> a big audience. >> it's like they'll joke about the politicians back in the 1800s there was a hanging and they asked the condemned do you have any last words, and he said no. and the politician said i have a few then.
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having said that, he may be making the right call in terms of culture. it's the one time -- not the one time. it's the one time we come on together drink beer, watch football and now i have a politician talking to me. maybe that tradition has come and past, so i'm okay with that. if he'll keep to his word tonight and every day between now and november. you heard will heard, a good republican, former congressman they're for chaos at the border. they are. and i do think for whatever problems they've had on the border before this, i think almost every american will nod their head if you say trump's for chaos. that's nikki haley is saying every day. trump's for chaos, i'm for order. he's got the case now to make it. he's got the most conservative, strict bill and he's going to oppose it. i think it's a good argument. >> i do think president biden should be talking to the american people more frequently.
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maybe it's shorter interviews, but be willing to take tough questions. let's be honest even if he did agree to this interview before the super bowl it'd be lighthearted. you've got an estimated 2 million americans going to be watching this thing, that's half the country almost. and i would just say, look, this is a moment in which this biden administration as well as the campaign re-elect understand this is a president who looks weak every day of the week. and i don't know that one interview can change many minds that are very much made up. >> between now and november, mr. president. >> repetition is the mother of learning? thank you both. great to have you in person in washington. tonight we are just hours away from the start of a case here in washington that could upend the 2024 presidential election. it's one of the first times we do expect the supreme court to take a big role. we'll tell you what is going to be decided by trump's attorneys tomorrow.
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two leading candidates for senate. two very different visions for california. steve garvey, the leading republican, is too conservative for california. he voted for trump twice and supported republicans for years, including far right conservatives. adam schiff, the leading democrat, defended democracy against trump and the insurrectionists.
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he helped build affordable housing, lower drug costs, and bring good jobs back home. the choice is clear. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. growing up, my parents wanted me to become a doctor or an engineer. those are good careers! but i chose a different path. first, as mayor and then in the legislature. i enshrined abortion rights in our california constitution. in the face of trump, i strengthened hate crime laws and lowered the costs for the middle class. now i'm running to bring the fight to congress. you were always stubborn. and on that note, i'm evan low, and i approve this message. just about 12 hours from now the supreme court is going to be hearing arguments over whether or not donald trump is eligible
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to be on the ballot. even at this late hour democrats in congress are calling for one of those justices, justice clarence thomas, to sit this argument out. dick durbin, the chair of the senate judiciary committee you've seen here on "the source" tweeted, given the questions surrounding his involvement justice thomas should recuse himself so there's no question of bias. another democrat, congressman jamie raskin, made a similar suggestion last month. of course, the person they are talking about is ginni thomas. she's been a conservative activist interest decades. she was in communication with trump's chief of staff, mark meadows, leading up to january 6th, and text messages that came out after show she was also pushing both claims of wide spraud fraud in the election. does anyone really think justice thomas will recuse himself? >> no. and there's no chance he will. he's not recused himself.
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i actually agree with representative raskin and others he should recuse himself because of his wife's involvement. recusal is not punishment. there's not like a judgment like you've done something wrong. if your spouse works for a company and they're a party to a lawsuit, nothing wrong with that. you just as a judge or justice you say i'm out. that's what justice thomas should do now and should should have been doing, but there's no way to force it. they do what they want. he'll be sitting there tomorrow. >> all nine justices, three of which trump appointed will be sitting there listening. what are you going to be listening for? >> i'm really going to be tuned into what the three liberal justices are going to say, justice jackson, justice sote mayor, and justice kagen because it's clear to me the other six are going to rule against colorado. they're going to rule in favor of donald trump and restore him to the ballot. one of the questions i have institutionally for the supreme court is are they going to come up with at least one of it
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liberals and maybe a 9-0 bench because chief justice roberts i think this is really important to him, that this not come through at yet another predictable 6-3 split. i think this is such a large case it will be resonating through history, and i he wants this to be seen as a moment when the supreme court could actually come together and agree on something just based on the law itself. >> and just to remind people what's at the heart of this is this little known insurrectionist ban that hasn't been used since 1919 i believe, i wrote 1991 earlier and i was wrong. i was close. they're basically looking at an argument that's gone surprisingly even further than some of the advocates thought it would go. >> it was ratified in 1868. it's barely been used. it was ratified after the civil war to try to keep confederates out of office. this started as a theory you'd see in law reviews and scattered
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op-eds. it started shortly after january 6th, and it's gotten this far. i'll i remain of the view it will fail in the supreme court, i will say this. give credit because we need some guidance what on earth this thing is and how it works, most importantly. and no matter what, no matter who wins or loses, we'll know a lot more about the 14th amendment when this is all over. >> but they won't necessarily be deciding donald trump did or did not engage in is insurrection or partake in it. >> i think they'll likely not make a grand declaration he did or did not engage in insurrection. first of all, they're not fact findersch they don't hold trials. they're going to be looking at the statutory, the legal, the constitutional questions. and i think they're going to be looking specifically really at two major things. one, is the president a, quote, officer of the united states under the 14th amendment? we're going to hear some deep dives into linguistics and
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history. the more likely basis for this decision who decides how this works? does it have to be the congress setting up rules or can the states do it for themivals? >> are you going to be watching? >> i'm ready. >> we're going to be watching very closely. >> up next on "the source" a yearlong investigation into president biden and his handling of classified documents now done. the next steps right after this. .
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kaitlan. tonight attorney general merrick garland has notified congress that special counsel robert has finished his investigation into president biden's possible mishandling of classified documents. the report is now under review by the white house office could be released to congress and to us, the public, by the end of this week. as you know, from our coverage here, no criminal charges are expected in that case but we could learn more about the documents that were found in president biden's home and office from his time as vp. here tonight, former deputy
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director of the fbi, andrew mccabe. biden himself was interviewed by the special counsel's office for two days last fall. i believe it was over 100 aides who were also interviewed as part of this. what are you expecting to see? >> i think what we'll see in the report is a report of incredible breadth and detail. from folks that i've spoken to, there is no question that the special counsel has taken the approach of turning over every single conceivable rock, speaking to every person who might have had any exposure to the places where these documents were contained or people who may have been involved in the decision-making process around them. so i think we'll see a very, very granularly detailed report but one that we know is not going to include the top line, the headline grabbing moment of recommending criminal charges. >> which is the opposite of the special counsel into trump's
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mishandling of classified documents. and trump was indicted on. people will, i'm sure, republican there's certainly take part to that report. how different is this with trump's mishandling and biden's handling? >> the difference is in that crucial element of intend, right? what you had in the, from the revelations of the search warrant and all the investigation that was done at mar-a-lago, we know that there is reason to believe that the special counsel has evidence of the intentional retention of national defense information. the question is, did the special counsel find similar evidence of intentional retention of materials on the part of president biden. by the simple fact that we know he's not recommending criminal charges, the answer is likely no, he didn't find evidence of that. he is almost in a self-defensive
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way the special counsel here is going to reveal an enormous. a detail to prove his case that there is not more to see here. >> that's interesting. so we might learn more. >> i think he will go really deep. more than we need. >> okay. well then we'll talk to you on friday. this other report that i'm fascinated by that came out today is showing, it is from the u.s. and it is showing that chinese hackers were in american infrastructure for five years. what does that tell you about just the fact that they had access for at least five years? what all they had access to and for how long without anyone in the u.s. understanding that they did? >> it tells us a lot of things. provisionally that the chinese have upped their game in the cyber spear. five, six, seven, eight years ago we thought about the chinese in terms of their ability to just break into systems and steal data. almost for no apparent reason. that they just took what they
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could get. now we're seeing is they were engaged in what was essentially operational preparation of the battlefield. in traditional military terms, you go out and prepare the battle space. you build fortified positions. you prepare to fight once the fighting starts. that's what the chinese have done in these critical infrastructure systems. they've maintained positions silently and covertly for years, creating the capability to really negatively impact us in the event that hostilities start between us. >> what we're hearing is that they're already embedding themselves into this infrastructure, systems like water and electricity. they were talking about. and i think the question is, do people have an understanding of how bad that could be? how devastating that could be if they chose to wield that power? >> i think the answer to that is obviously no. right? a lot of the progress that the
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chinese have been able to make is because many of our systems, critical infrastructure, our private sector systems, have not taken the step they need to to protect themselves from that sort of infiltration. so i think no. most people are not aware of how vulnerable we are. >> as always, thank you. we'll be back in just a moment.
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xfinity1stand10gs.com for your chance to win. this just in. maryanne williamson is suspending her campaign for the nomination arrest ten months of campaigning. a quick note. i will be covering at the supreme court. that starts at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. for now, cnn news night with abby phillip begins.

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